eBay Sellers Do NOT Need An Auctioneer's License!!!!

psmalls · Joined: 07 Mar 2005 Posts: 2

Are automobile dealers/salesmen auctioneers? they place a fantasy (SRP) price on the vehicle and then accept or reject buyers bids, even for the same model with the same features. Perhaps eBay sellers could put a very high buy-it- now price on all items and accept the highest offer.

psmalls · Joined: 07 Mar 2005 Posts: 2

Under this law eBay sellers aren't the only auctioneers. Aren't car dealers and agent salespeople auctioneers. They place a fantasy (SRP) price on the vehicle and then accept or reject buyers' offers. Perhaps we should all place a very high buy-it-now price on our eBey listings and then accept a reasonable (highest) offer.

Ranger · Joined: 06 Mar 2005 Posts: 156

BJGrolle · Joined: 25 Oct 2001 Posts: 816 Location: Ohio

Regarding the issue of pricing, I can't see how requiring a license to sell on eBay would solve any low-balling problem. Putting aside the other issues...

During my telephone conversations with the government officials, they all admitted that it would be enforced on a complaint basis. There is no way for them to monitor who is selling on eBay in Ohio, etc.

And we all know that there are plenty of sellers who do this under-the-table: without collecting and remitting state sales tax or declaring their income on their tax returns.

Until the government can literally stop someone from sitting at their computer and putting up an auction on eBay, there is no way to stop the lowballing.

And yes, I've shared your frustration at times with the pricing. I don't deal in typically large $$$ myself, but it's frustrating to have 3 or 4 books listed by different sellers around the $10 range, then someone comes along with the next one at $2.99 or less. And guess which one gets the bid?

Licensing won't stop ignorance.
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dsteiner · Posted: Mon Mar 07, 2005 6:59 pm Post subject:

BJGrolle · Joined: 25 Oct 2001 Posts: 816 Location: Ohio

Yes, Trading Assistant info. is available. I was speaking more of the non-TA sellers.
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hmh · Joined: 13 Mar 2002 Posts: 96

Brenda,
Have you heard anything more about state bill 209. I just got done trying trying to call one of the state reps cant get thru evenings are bad.Either that or they dont want to talk to me.
I have a vendors license to resell items in ohio I believe thats all the licensing I should need. take care,john

spectator · Joined: 07 May 2004 Posts: 5

In CA, TAs narrowly escape secondhand dealer status by claiming an exemption that quite honestly, is a loophole, and completely inconsistent with the intent of the law.

In a previous post (http://www.auctionbytes.com/forum/phpBB/viewtopic.php?p=6413252&highlight=#6413252) I brought this to the attention of the forums with no (meaningful) response.

I have been ACTIVELY researching this issue for months and I have a few preliminary findings. (beyond what I already wrote)

#1 eBay officially considers itself a VENUE,

#2 eBay does not consider itself an auctioneer.

#3 TAs are typically defined as “auction houses.” If a TA takes physical possession an item for the purpose of auctioning, the TA is considered an auction house.

#4 TAs are auctioneers. TAs choose which bids to accept (private auction) and which to reject. TAs usually set the starting price. TAs call out the items via written descriptions and html.

In the state of CA, a secondhand dealer is FORMALLY defined as:

21626. (a) A "secondhand dealer," as used in this article, means and includes any person, copartnership, firm, or corporation whose business includes buying, selling, trading, taking in pawn, accepting for sale on consignment, accepting for auctioning, or auctioning secondhand tangible personal property.

The law squarely brands a TA as a secondhand dealer and therefore their business is subject to the governing legislation.

However, TA’s claim this exemption:

21626.5. "Secondhand dealer," as used in this article, does not include either of the following:
(a) Any person who performs the services of an auctioneer for a fee or salary.

This exception is intended to pertain to a hired auctioneer…the kind of “for hire” fellow who travels around the world using his cool voice, and lightning fast talking skills to add to the feel of an auction. In my opinion, to claim that this exception applies to TAs and therefore precludes all the other clauses is not in the spirit of the legislation.

This exemption is not intended to apply to somebody who
#1 “accepts for sale on consignment”
#2 “accepts for auctioning” and
#3 [is engaged in] auctioning secondhand tangible personal property.
TAs, in my opinion, are VERY SPECIFICALLY governed by this legislation.

The laws are put in place TO PROTECT CITIZENS FROM THE SALE OF STOLEN MERCHANDIZE, AND TO AID LAW ENFORCEMENT IN RECOVERING STOLEN ITEMS. It’s not some lame frivolous tax. Its about $50 per year, and it forces you to register your goods with the police. It’s a pain.

I do it on everything I am supposed to, and I wait when I am supposed to. For the other TAs who don’t follow these laws, I encourage you to be more ethical in your businesses. Morality is good.

classicn · Joined: 16 Jul 2004 Posts: 407

BJGrolle · Joined: 25 Oct 2001 Posts: 816 Location: Ohio

John, I haven't heard any more about it. From what I've read on various boards, lots of people are trying to call their reps and/or Senator Mumper's office. Some are getting through.

Trust me, I'm keeping tabs on the situation.

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Bobcat1804 · Joined: 08 Mar 2005 Posts: 3

BJ-

Here's the email I sent to Sen. Mumper's office yesterday (cc: to the senator in my district). The bottom line is that this mess with auctioneer licensing is delaying my decision to open a drop-off store. I don't want to throw my money away by finding out that I won't be able to do business for a year while I serve an apprenticeship:

Dear Senator Mumper:

My name is xxxxxxx. I have recently been awarded a franchise from xxxxxxx, an eBay drop-off store franchisor (www.xxxxxxx.com). I plan to open the first xxxxxxx-area xxxxxxx store within the next two months. I am writing in regards to the legislation you authored that pertains to online auctions (http://money.cnn.com/2005/03/07/technology/ohio_ebay/index.htm). From the articles I've read on this legislation, the state auction license would require the following:

1.) A cost of $200 and posting a $50,000 bond
2.) A one-year apprenticeship to a licensed auctioneer
3.) Acting as a bid-caller in 12 auctions
4.) Attending an approved auction school
5.) Passing a written and oral exam

I believe that regulation of our industry is, by-and-large, a positive notion. It can be used to separate the legitimate businesses from the fly-by-night operations. With that in mind, I have no problem with neither the $200 license fee, nor the $50,000 bond (the bond is a very good safeguard for consumers). However, I do take issue with the apprenticeship requirements, auction school attendance, and the examination requirements.

As the owner of an eBay drop-off store, I will be acting as a technical consultant, not an auctioneer. My job duties will consist of the following: Researching pricing for an item based on recent eBay auctions; taking digital photographs of said item, writing an accurate description of the item, creating an eBay listing for the item, answering any questions about the item from prospective bidders, and finally, packing and shipping the item to the winning bidder once the auction has closed.

None of my job responsibilities include actually auctioning off the item. That responsibility falls upon eBay itself. The eBay web site, along with the software that powers it, takes care of the actual auction process. Because my business will not entail conducting auctions of any sort, I do not believe I should be subject to the bulk of the requirements that your legislation sets forth.

I hope I was able to give you some insight into the eBay drop-off store industry and how it differs from the job of an auctioneer. An examination process tailored specifically for the eBay drop-off store industry might be appropriate for regulatory purposes, but including our business under the umbrella of this general auctioneer legislation is not. I would ask that you take another look at this legislation and make revisions that would remove any undue constraints on the eBay drop-off store industry. Thank you.

Sincerely,

xxxxxxx

BJGrolle · Joined: 25 Oct 2001 Posts: 816 Location: Ohio

Bobcat, that is a very nice letter! Professional and to the point.

I particularly like the paragraph where you explain how eBay actually works.

My efforts to explain the same fell on deaf ears, but that was before I got the media involved. If more and more people call their state reps on this, send emails, etc., it keeps the pressure on and the issue in the forefront so it cannot be swept under the carpet.

Yesterday, someone posted at OTWA that the news made CNN! They did a rewrite of the articles floating around - it's the first article I've seen originating out of New York.

Here is a link to it:

http://money.cnn.com/2005/03/07/technology/ohio_ebay/
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Ranger · Joined: 06 Mar 2005 Posts: 156

Bobcat1804 · Joined: 08 Mar 2005 Posts: 3

My attorney just forwarded me an email from the legislative aide of Ohio State Sen. Jim Hughes. Here is an excerpt from that message:

"I have also spoken with Senator Mumper's legislative aide who in our conversation indicated that a new bill is being drafted and possibly introduced today or tomorrow to address the "unforeseen consequences" caused by SB 209- specifically the e-Bay situation."

As soon as I receive word on exactly what those changes might be, I will post again.