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beckem
Joined: 31 May 2004
Posts: 108
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 Posted: Wed Jan 26, 2005 11:16 am Post subject: THE EBAY MONOPOPLY |
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Stewart Vernon wrote:
> On 25 Jan 2005 19:47:56 -0800, greedbay@hotpop.com wrote:
>
> >Ebay is nothing without its sellers. Quit supporting eBay's greedy
> >practices.
> >Do not list items. Do not buy from eBay.
>
> A lot of the sellers are nothing without eBay... if not for eBay,
> a lot of us would still have a lot of crap filling up our garages,
> houses, etc.
>
> -Stewart
> Stewart's Comics (comics@indenter.com)
> http://www.indenter.com/comics
Stewart, eBay did not create the internet. If not for eBay, sellers
would have the choice of selling their items on a large number of sites,
groups and forums without being subjected to ebay raising their fees
at will. Without eBay sellers would not be paying out 50% and more of
their profits to sell online.
Have you ever asked yourself why you can host a web site with 1 Gigabyte of
storage and 30 Gigabytes of bandwidth for 5.95/month but it costs sellers
$5.00 in listing fees and FVFs to list a few items on a couple of pages on
eBay?
Its competition. eBay has none. They buy out everyone that would prevent
them from raising their fees at will. Yes I know, eBay advertises more than
the web hosts. Where does eBay get the money to advertise? Where did eBay
get the money to buy half.com? Where did eBay get the money to buy PayPal?
That's right. From the sellers who help build eBay and make it a continued
success every day. And how is eBay paying you back? |
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Tradguy
Joined: 15 Sep 2002
Posts: 519
Location: Florida
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| Posted: Wed Jan 26, 2005 11:33 am Post subject: |
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I agree with the sentiment...but must this be like a war. Some must be willing to die so that others can be free?
I'd stop selling on ebay in a minute...but I think I'd go out of business.
What I've done instead is sell on other venues, as well as my own website, in addition to ebay. Ebay stores has also saved me a lot of money in listing fees.
Ebay now only accounts for perhaps 70% of my sales, and 30% of those are ebay store sales.
I think what sellers should consider is diversification because it's a prudent business decision to do so. But leaving the "super mall" entirely could be financial suicide for those of us that do this for a living...
Rich |
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classicn
Joined: 16 Jul 2004
Posts: 407
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| Posted: Wed Jan 26, 2005 5:36 pm Post subject: |
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Tradguy,
I agree. I'm trying to diversify, but there is no way I'm leaving eBay. The profit is there.
Beckem,
I agree in spirit but have the following comments:
| Quote: | Without eBay sellers would not be paying out 50% and more of
their profits to sell online. |
If eBay is taking 50% of the profit, the seller needs to consider another product line or does need to consider leaving eBay. eBay and PayPal alone take a much less than this from my business, if you calculate profit this way. (Profit is what is left after cost of doing business, so actually, eBay takes 0% of the profit.  )
| Quote: | Have you ever asked yourself why you can host a web site with 1 Gigabyte of
storage and 30 Gigabytes of bandwidth for 5.95/month but it costs sellers
$5.00 in listing fees and FVFs to list a few items on a couple of pages on
eBay? |
Yes, and there is a very simple answer. You can have all the GBs you want, but you would have to build the traffic yourself. Despite the messages flooding my inboxes from spammers, it's NOT easy to do. This is akin to asking: Why does California coastline property cost so much more than Georgia swampland?
classicn |
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kjp55
Joined: 18 Aug 2001
Posts: 1972
Location: East of Rockies
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| Posted: Wed Jan 26, 2005 9:24 pm Post subject: |
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Leaving eBay completely would be financial suicide for most sellers, and eBay knows that.
| Quote: | | This is akin to asking: Why does California coastline property cost so much more than Georgia swampland? |
This statement says it all.  |
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beckem
Joined: 31 May 2004
Posts: 108
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| Posted: Wed Jan 26, 2005 11:20 pm Post subject: |
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| classicn wrote: | Tradguy,
I agree. I'm trying to diversify, but there is no way I'm leaving eBay. The profit is there.
Beckem,
I agree in spirit but have the following comments:
| Quote: | Without eBay sellers would not be paying out 50% and more of
their profits to sell online. |
If eBay is taking 50% of the profit, the seller needs to consider another product line or does need to consider leaving eBay. eBay and PayPal alone take a much less than this from my business, if you calculate profit this way. (Profit is what is left after cost of doing business, so actually, eBay takes 0% of the profit. )
| Quote: | Have you ever asked yourself why you can host a web site with 1 Gigabyte of
storage and 30 Gigabytes of bandwidth for 5.95/month but it costs sellers
$5.00 in listing fees and FVFs to list a few items on a couple of pages on
eBay? |
Yes, and there is a very simple answer. You can have all the GBs you want, but you would have to build the traffic yourself. Despite the messages flooding my inboxes from spammers, it's NOT easy to do. This is akin to asking: Why does California coastline property cost so much more than Georgia swampland?
classicn |
No I was only pointing out that eBay charges 100 times or
more than it costs them to host your auction. All of the traffic that has turned eBay into "California coastline property" is paid for by its sellers. When the sellers leave, eBay is no longer California coastline. Ebay is nothing without its sellers. |
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classicn
Joined: 16 Jul 2004
Posts: 407
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| Posted: Thu Jan 27, 2005 8:09 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: | No I was only pointing out that eBay charges 100 times or
more than it costs them to host your auction. All of the traffic that has turned eBay into "California coastline property" is paid for by its sellers. When the sellers leave, eBay is no longer California coastline. Ebay is nothing without its sellers. |
But the sellers are not going to leave. There's no point in arguing what their profit model is. The first 3 cups of kernels from a 50 pound bag of popcorn at a movie theater pays for the whole bag, but customers are still there. Extending the CA coastline model out a little more: At one time, people of all means were able to own the coastline. Property taxes went up, and people decided to move out. People with more income moved in. I'm actually hoping that some of my competition moves out. If just one of my big dog competitors leaves, my sales will soar and my profit will go up, making the fee increase look like small potatoes.
I would add the argument that eBay is nothing without its buyers. The sellers will always be there. Sellers will raise prices, and the buyers will still be there. The market for some products will be destroyed, yes, but there will always be profitable products..
classicn |
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kjp55
Joined: 18 Aug 2001
Posts: 1972
Location: East of Rockies
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| Posted: Thu Jan 27, 2005 8:16 pm Post subject: |
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classicn wrote:
| Quote: | | I'm actually hoping that some of my competition moves out. If just one of my big dog competitors leaves, my sales will soar and my profit will go up, making the fee increase look like small potatoes. |
You took the words right out of my mouth. Just a short time ago, a seller could list 100 items and realize a generous 40% - 60% sell-thru rate [on practically anything of modest value]. Nowadays, you're lucky to get a 20% sell-thru rate because of the vast number of sellers on eBay.
So, yes...an exodus of sellers to other venues would most certainly help those who decide to stay. |
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BURIED TREASURES
Joined: 09 Mar 2003
Posts: 1339
Location: Clarksville Tennessee
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| Posted: Thu Jan 27, 2005 9:22 pm Post subject: |
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My sell through rates on auctions runs between 8 - 10%. That means that the profit on these must cover the other 90 - 92% that did not sell. The extra fees only add to that already high burden.
Now I am going to talk REAL numbers here. In the year 2003 my ebay fees were in the neighborhood of $1,500 - $1,800 per month and I was having a very difficult time with them. In the year 2004 ebay shot itself in the foot and raised fees yet again (the 2003 fee increase was awful and the 2004 was so much the worse). My ebay fees promptly DROPPED to the neighborhood of about $500.00 - $600.00 per month and I almost stopped selling online full time for a living. Ebay LOST $12,000 in revenue from me last year PRECISELY because they raised their fees past the point of being reasonable. My mistake in years past was I had depended too much on ebay. That mode of thinking is now gone from my business plan. I managed to recover by completely changing my business strategy BUT the emotional and financial cost was staggering. Notice ebay missed their "projected revenue" by a penny a share and the stock dumped $20.00 (and priced at around $100.00 is still $95.00 too much for this stock). They missed it SOLELY because of dealers like me who did not list as much in 2004 as we had in years past.
Now in 2005 we have yet another MASSIVE fee increase. Can you guess what that means to me? In 2004 I ran 10 day auctions with buy it now and picture gallery. After February 18th I will limit my use of 10 day auctions, buy it now and gallery by 75-85%. Estimated loss of revenue to ebay for their latest fee increase in the year 2005? Another $3,000-5000 which stays in my pocket or will be used on other venues.
Yes ebay, keep raising your fees. You make me a MUCH better dealer and keep me on my toes as I continue to make ebay a significantly smaller part of my ever growing business. When ebay's 2005 revenue targets are not reached for the same reason their 2004 targets were not it will be because tens of thousands of powersellers just like me do not list anywhere near as much on ebay. Instead we will continue to help grow other websites who will not charge us anywhere near as much so we can keep our prices competetive thus the consumer will be the one who wins out.
Search engines like yahoo and google make it for us as we drive traffic to our personal stores and away from ebay. By putting sellers of all levels from titanium powersellers to the smallest of online sellers in the "pressure cooker" the results will not be what you or ebay management thinks it will be. Instead of more revenue for the ebay coffers it will be significantly less. Prices on ebay will continue to decline as dealers try to save money by starting bidding lower to save on fees. Instead of less competition the actual result will be more competition as ebay sellers tell their customers go to other websites. These other websites will continue to grow while ebay user growth will gradually level off and may even see a small decline. Meanwhile as ebay sellers raise the price of their goods to offset the higher fees, dealers elsewhere will keep their prices low or in fact even lower them because they can AFFORD to since they are not paying so much to the tyranical landlord.
Google traffic DWARFS ebay traffic and people (both buyers and sellers) are discovering that there is more to the internet than feebay. Will it be the demise of ebay? Not hardly. Will the internet continue to be an ever changing and vibrant place where buyers and sellers can come to meet on a daily basis? You bet! Sincerely, John Leckrone John@hopkinsvilleantiques.com
_________________
http://www.stores.ebay.com/buriedtreasuressterlingsilver?refid=store
http://www.auctionbytes.com/forum/phpBB/viewforum.php?f=32 |
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beckem
Joined: 31 May 2004
Posts: 108
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| Posted: Thu Jan 27, 2005 11:00 pm Post subject: |
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| BURIED TREASURES wrote: |
Google traffic DWARFS ebay traffic and people (both buyers and sellers) are discovering that there is more to the internet than feebay. Will it be the demise of ebay? Not hardly. Will the internet continue to be an ever changing and vibrant place where buyers and sellers can come to meet on a daily basis? You bet! Sincerely, John Leckrone John@hopkinsvilleantiques.com |
Is it just me, or does it seem like Google is catering too much to eBay. Originally, I had high expectations for Froogle. Now it looks more and more like a feed for eBay stores.
True. EBay is Google's biggest customer. But I would think Google would reach the point where they look to extend beyond eBay's influence.
Reminds me of AOL hooking up with eBay, when AOL was positioned to host their own auctions. eBay would have been history. |
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mcsake
Joined: 28 Jan 2005
Posts: 6
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quicksalesinc
Joined: 21 Feb 2005
Posts: 1
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| Posted: Mon Feb 21, 2005 1:59 pm Post subject: Diversifying your venues for more sales and less Ebay |
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I agree fully with what is being said on this thread. Ebay has the sellers by the cojones and because we don't / can't really go anywhere else they continue to work US, so they can make their numbers at the board meetings!! That's gratitude for you isn't it haha we the sellers have made Ebay, they should remember that. Anyway my strategy now is to go out and put my auctions out everywhere with all these new Ebay alternative sites in hopes that Ebay will get wise and see that we do have alternatives and CAN do something about it. This is a good site with the most promise I've seen, of mcourse there's more out there just Google it under Ebay alternative!! :
www.theauctionman.net
Thanks for letting me vent! |
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kjp55
Joined: 18 Aug 2001
Posts: 1972
Location: East of Rockies
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| Posted: Mon Feb 21, 2005 7:43 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | If eBay is taking 50% of the profit, the seller needs to consider another product line or does need to consider leaving eBay. eBay and PayPal alone take a much less than this from my business, if you calculate profit this way. (Profit is what is left after cost of doing business, so actually, eBay takes 0% of the profit. ) |
I missed this one earlier but classicn hit the nail on the head. |
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craigmar
Joined: 18 Feb 2005
Posts: 9
Location: Florida
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| Posted: Tue Feb 22, 2005 8:30 pm Post subject: Life Teaches Us many Lessons |
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The older I get the more I realize that no company can keep going strong if it ignores the needs and wants of it's customers. There are certainly a lot of good people who are struggling to find alternatives to eBay and because of that real alternatives will emerge.
eBay allowed a lot of people to experience the entrepreneurial joy of having their own business or a side business working from their homes but there is an anxiety and stirring from the fee changes (and not only that but the diminishing percentage of listings that sell) and that will produce new alternatives to eBay. And then eBay will experience the backlash of betraying the stay at home moms and the other sellers who found freedom on eBay, and in many ways made eBay what it is today.
They may stay on board for now since there isn't any real competition yet, but the loyalty is gone. |
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classicn
Joined: 16 Jul 2004
Posts: 407
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| Posted: Wed Feb 23, 2005 8:39 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | The older I get the more I realize that no company can keep going strong if it ignores the needs and wants of it's customers. |
I'm also old enough to realize that no company can keep going strong if it doesn't raise prices. I think there is a pretty hefty line between ignoring the wants and needs of your customers and capitulating to their demands.
classicn |
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martha baerreis
Joined: 14 Jun 2004
Posts: 194
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| Posted: Thu Feb 24, 2005 8:05 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: | eBay allowed a lot of people to experience the entrepreneurial joy of having their own business or a side business working from their homes but there is an anxiety and stirring from the fee changes (and not only that but the diminishing percentage of listings that sell) and that will produce new alternatives to eBay. And then eBay will experience the backlash of betraying the stay at home moms and the other sellers who found freedom on eBay, and in many ways made eBay what it is today.
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Every business, no matter how big or small goes through "stages" or an evolution of awareness of the realities of being in business. That is why a high percentage fold after a year, two years, and very few survive five years.
The "entrepreneurial joy" ebbs and flows with the realities of the marketplace. The days of spending a dime and reaping ten dollars are pretty much gone. And while they were here they were an aberration. The realities of any kind of business are based on the effort and committment of the people doing the business. The low cost of ebay relative to the return was a fluke and, I believe that if one compared the market and economy overall, it was not so out of the ball park.
We are engaged in a market which reflects the trade deficit, more sellers than buyers, and expenses skyrocketing.
It is time to accept the reality and get busy figuring out how to compete and deal with it.
As a "stay as home mom" who has been in business for a long long time, (and is cooking a regular well balanced meal at this very moment!) I would submit that "betrayal" can only be done to those who are "dependent". I think most women are actually much smarter than that!
jmho
martha 
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Baerreis Art Craft and Collectibles |
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